Im sorry guys I have just posted a topic about cut way system and now I find out that cut awy was lready part of the list.
Here is a copy of my topic and all my questions....could anybody there help me to find a answer? I would appreciate :
cut way yes or not????
I have been flying acro for a few years and Im actually moving to a new acro wing, pretty small and much more dynamics than the wing I was used to.
I don`t really trust the ordinary paragliding reserve system for acro flying with high performance wings due to the high rotation speed this wings are able to reach,especcialy when U r in trouble :(
I was wondering if a cut away system, a real cut away ( like the groovy cut away http://www.profly.org/english_new/index.htm ) could be a good choige for safety.
Of course I dont mean to have only a cut away on my harness but my idea is to have a cut away+ regular reserve just in case U r tangled in the lines.....does anyone have some experience with the cut away??
The other question about cut away is this...it looks like groovy is the only 1 available...is it really the only 1 ?
it looks like due to the triple rings system the risers are shifted upward probably 10 Cm ( 4 inches ) or so....do U think that could be enough to change the wing behaviour....attachments point position is a very important factor when it comes to weight shifting and I don`t wanna lose my freedom of movement.
I would like to start a discussion with anybody interested on this issue `cause I really think there is still a lot to do on safety system for acro flying....and since acro flying is becoming such a big deal...lets start the conversation guys !!!
Write comment
fu**, thats mean azz, u cant do it without me!!!
do the misty before and we ll do the tumble together! where do you wanna do it? did you hear from dad,christoph, he won a ozone glider and he said its my glider!!! i wait till felix developed the new ozone 6907 a bit more,gonna b mean! http://youtube.com/results?search_query=flx+ozone&search=Search !! mean ay?
but i also ll ask Lasse from turnpoint if the wanna support me a bit wiht their new aspen freestyle!!????
ok..bring heaps of people to my 18th birthday!!! just GOOD people! did benny do da misty yet?
hi marv!not an easy dessicion to buy a harness you can`t try before!especialy in my financial situation:P
I think I´ll go for the tumbling now!benny already made some!WUHAAAAAAA
cu on july the 6th!hihi
hoi alex,
how s it goin? did u buy it?
im sitting here with a reall bad hangover and miss queenstown,no flying in wellington atm!!!!way to WINDY ! how s the misty goin? ;)
hi all
as I read you can change the adjustment of the seatboard to make the harness more sensitive on weightshifting!if you leave those straps open is the harness still sensitive,or do you have to adjust them to do acro?(I`m afraid that they will open because off g-force,like they did on my old supair harness)
thank you,alex
Hi Pal,
Sorry for the delay but I just recover from a big computers failure so ...I know you found a jockey for Annecy but anyway We will meet soon here next time .
Blue skies and Happy new year .
Thanks for your comment, lot of useful infos.
But I think at lower altitude if would prefer to throw one of the normal rescues. 100 meter can be the limit to open Rogallo, but if you are experienced you can collect the glider and land safely in head wind with it, if not it's better to throw a circular parachute. But it's getting a bit offtopic now.
Anyway I'm still very interested to buy a cutaway, especially because I want to learn skydiving later on. Do you have a cutaway harness by the way? I really want to try it if possible, maybe above the big landing field in Annecy, and then you can also show me how to fold it :-) I will arrive to Annecy on 28th of november, however I'm not sure who will pick us up in Lyon yet :-)
As I said - it is too much for me....if I decide
to buy one of the harnesses it will be the 'standard'
Acro version.
But as I can get the Supair harness a bit easier I am leaning towards that....
Hi Birds,
First I only did basic acro-tricks and approx 100 Wingsuit jumps per year.
I just want to add my two cents about the Groovy . I am sure it is great and safe acro harness because of the cut-away system. A lot of pros but some cons too.
1) It is for professionnal
2) The price
3) After a cut-away , you will fly a very small base jumping canopy ( normally between 240 ft2 to 320 ft2) , here 180 ft2 (16.72 m2) or 150 ft2 ( 13.94 m2 !) . Imagine twisted under 100 m AGL , flying at 50 kmh mini and with a very small area for landing ? Skydiving canopies are less forgivable during landing.
4) You have to learn how to pack a base jumping canopy ( 1HR per job with clamps / tools ) . For info , only a pro rigger will pack every year your skydiving reserve and will never guarantee the opening !
5) But because you will jump a overloaded wing , after a funny cut-away, you could swoop the pond like hell !!!!
Do hope it will help
Blue skies
Chris
PS I currently live at Annecy so Pal and Gab if you want more infos or to put your hands on my canopies for a pre packing lesson , just give me a buzz when you will fly near.
I think the cutaway should work perfectly in any situation. This parachute is basically designed for the emergency parachute of sky divers, so they can have pretty similar situations, like twist, spiral, and other, not proper openings.
When we return to France, we'll go to Annecy first and hopefully Supair will change the harness for Gábor. I think for the very first time it broke in Asymmetric SAT or Tumbling, and after each repairing it happened during the first Infinity attempt. But it's not a really nice experience to feel your harness falling apart in the worst moment, just when you enter some hardcore stuff... :-)
I think I met with Dan, but there were so many people I don't remember his face.
Thanks for the response. Yeah I was thinking that the Cutaway looked a great system too - I'd just heard that it was a bit more than I could afford. But I guess for pilots at your level doing the stuff you are it is well worth it.
It is pretty impressive how fast the base rig deploys once you cutaway.
I ended up writing to Profly directly and got a response before. They said they'd sort either the of the 2 harnesses out for me directly..which is great.
I had asked if there were additional videos of the cutaway being deployed - as I was interested to see someone deploy when they were if a manoeuvre where the canopy was going apeshit or from a spiral etc.
There aren't any at the moment. But I was told that one of there customers has used it from a MacTwist gone wrong twice perfectly.
As you mentioned, they said the only situation you can't use it in is when you fall in the canopy. You just use one of the 2 normal reserves.
I reckon it is a great system....would be good to see it incorporated into other regular harnesses, XC etc...would seem much better to cutaway the stuffed paraglider then, there is no chance of tangles etc.
I have heard good things about the Avasport Acro2 also.
With the Supair harness that is interesting to hear
they didn't just give Gabor a new one after the 2nd or 3rd time it broke. I don't think it'd be a problem for me if I got that one, as I know I wouldn't be putting any where near as much Ggs or stress on it as Gabor would be :) What manoeuvre was he pulling anyway?
Did you meet my mate Dan Stephens when you were at Vertigo? He was the only mad Kiwi there so he'd be hard to miss.
Congratulation on your awesome results lately! Really imperssive to see what you are able to do with your Twister! BTW: What is your weight on the Twister?
Yes, I'm flying with the Groovy since 2 years almost.
It's a pretty simple, but strong construction. The back protection is not the regularly used foam but a special one (actually lot of small foam tubes), which doesn't turn you upside down when you fall into the water and you can also dry it out very fast. It's maybe not the most comfortable harness, but it's ok. I also like the rescue system, because the reserve is not in a tube or something so you don't have to pull it out, it's already out when you pull the handle. If your Icaro dealer is too lazy to write you back, try to contact with Michael Nesler the designer of the harness: http://justacro.com/index.php?m=5&mod=m&id=303
I tried the Supair acro 2 only two times and I couldn't set it perfectly for my body so I don't have lot of experience with it. But I can tell you that Gábor flies it since 1 year and one of the smaller risers of the hangup system simply ripped out from the harness during an acro maneuver. They tried to fix it at least 3 times already, but every time it broke again.
I also have to find a new harness for myself for the next season (unfortunately APCO doesn't want to produce acro harness at the moment). I have to try the Avasport Acro2 (I've heard good things about it), but I'm even more interested in the Profly Groovy Cutaway system. In my opinion this is the best what acro pilots can have. As I know they sold only a few piecies, however this is the safest possible rescue system in the paragliding world, people didn't really realize it yet. You have a sky-diving canopy in the back of your harness and it's container is connected to the paraglider. At the moment you pull the handle you disconnect from the glider the parachute opens immediately and you are flying again 15 meters below...Of course in case of falling into the lines or the canopy you cannot use it, but you still have 1-2 normal rescue under your ass. I know flying with 3 rescue sounds a bit too much (the cutaway, a rogallo and a regular one), but I have only one life and I'm risking it every day...Anyway I need some extra kilos to speed up my Infinity :-)
I see you have one of these Profly Groovy harnesses. I am tossing up between this and the Supair Acro 2 harness. That is if I can get one this far downunder.
Am interested to hear you views on it.
I guess you must think it's OK as I see you'd been using it a while from one of your previous posts.
I understand that you can get them through Icaro dealers and I've been trying to find an approx price (in Euros) on all the sites but nowhere seems to list any prices. Have fired off a few emails but no responses yet.
Do you or any others out there have an idea what these go for?
Any opinions on the Groovy Vs Acro2 harnesses?
Latest Comments
Im sorry guys I have just posted a topic about cut way system and now I find out that cut awy was lready part of the list.
Here is a copy of my topic and all my questions....could anybody there help me to find a answer? I would appreciate :
cut way yes or not????
I have been flying acro for a few years and Im actually moving to a new acro wing, pretty small and much more dynamics than the wing I was used to.
I don`t really trust the ordinary paragliding reserve system for acro flying with high performance wings due to the high rotation speed this wings are able to reach,especcialy when U r in trouble :(
I was wondering if a cut away system, a real cut away ( like the groovy cut away http://www.profly.org/english_new/index.htm ) could be a good choige for safety.
Of course I dont mean to have only a cut away on my harness but my idea is to have a cut away+ regular reserve just in case U r tangled in the lines.....does anyone have some experience with the cut away??
The other question about cut away is this...it looks like groovy is the only 1 available...is it really the only 1 ?
it looks like due to the triple rings system the risers are shifted upward probably 10 Cm ( 4 inches ) or so....do U think that could be enough to change the wing behaviour....attachments point position is a very important factor when it comes to weight shifting and I don`t wanna lose my freedom of movement.
I would like to start a discussion with anybody interested on this issue `cause I really think there is still a lot to do on safety system for acro flying....and since acro flying is becoming such a big deal...lets start the conversation guys !!!
Write comment
let`s use e-mail:)don`t want to get the others pissed because of our off topic writing!
octane wuahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
fu**, thats mean azz, u cant do it without me!!!
do the misty before and we ll do the tumble together! where do you wanna do it? did you hear from dad,christoph, he won a ozone glider and he said its my glider!!! i wait till felix developed the new ozone 6907 a bit more,gonna b mean! http://youtube.com/results?search_query=flx+ozone&search=Search !! mean ay?
but i also ll ask Lasse from turnpoint if the wanna support me a bit wiht their new aspen freestyle!!????
ok..bring heaps of people to my 18th birthday!!! just GOOD people! did benny do da misty yet?
hi marv!not an easy dessicion to buy a harness you can`t try before!especialy in my financial situation:P
I think I´ll go for the tumbling now!benny already made some!WUHAAAAAAA
cu on july the 6th!hihi
hoi alex,
how s it goin? did u buy it?
im sitting here with a reall bad hangover and miss queenstown,no flying in wellington atm!!!!way to WINDY ! how s the misty goin? ;)
hi all
as I read you can change the adjustment of the seatboard to make the harness more sensitive on weightshifting!if you leave those straps open is the harness still sensitive,or do you have to adjust them to do acro?(I`m afraid that they will open because off g-force,like they did on my old supair harness)
thank you,alex
Hi Pal,
Sorry for the delay but I just recover from a big computers failure so ...I know you found a jockey for Annecy but anyway We will meet soon here next time .
Blue skies and Happy new year .
Hi Chris!
Thanks for your comment, lot of useful infos.
But I think at lower altitude if would prefer to throw one of the normal rescues. 100 meter can be the limit to open Rogallo, but if you are experienced you can collect the glider and land safely in head wind with it, if not it's better to throw a circular parachute. But it's getting a bit offtopic now.
Anyway I'm still very interested to buy a cutaway, especially because I want to learn skydiving later on. Do you have a cutaway harness by the way? I really want to try it if possible, maybe above the big landing field in Annecy, and then you can also show me how to fold it :-) I will arrive to Annecy on 28th of november, however I'm not sure who will pick us up in Lyon yet :-)
Karl,
I highly recommend the groovy acro, even without cut away. It's the best harness I ever had.
Hey Chris,
Yeah you are right on most counts there.
As I said - it is too much for me....if I decide
to buy one of the harnesses it will be the 'standard'
Acro version.
But as I can get the Supair harness a bit easier I am leaning towards that....
Thanks
Karl
Hi Birds,
First I only did basic acro-tricks and approx 100 Wingsuit jumps per year.
I just want to add my two cents about the Groovy . I am sure it is great and safe acro harness because of the cut-away system. A lot of pros but some cons too.
1) It is for professionnal
2) The price
3) After a cut-away , you will fly a very small base jumping canopy ( normally between 240 ft2 to 320 ft2) , here 180 ft2 (16.72 m2) or 150 ft2 ( 13.94 m2 !) . Imagine twisted under 100 m AGL , flying at 50 kmh mini and with a very small area for landing ? Skydiving canopies are less forgivable during landing.
4) You have to learn how to pack a base jumping canopy ( 1HR per job with clamps / tools ) . For info , only a pro rigger will pack every year your skydiving reserve and will never guarantee the opening !
5) But because you will jump a overloaded wing , after a funny cut-away, you could swoop the pond like hell !!!!
Do hope it will help
Blue skies
Chris
PS I currently live at Annecy so Pal and Gab if you want more infos or to put your hands on my canopies for a pre packing lesson , just give me a buzz when you will fly near.
Hi Karl!
I think the cutaway should work perfectly in any situation. This parachute is basically designed for the emergency parachute of sky divers, so they can have pretty similar situations, like twist, spiral, and other, not proper openings.
When we return to France, we'll go to Annecy first and hopefully Supair will change the harness for Gábor. I think for the very first time it broke in Asymmetric SAT or Tumbling, and after each repairing it happened during the first Infinity attempt. But it's not a really nice experience to feel your harness falling apart in the worst moment, just when you enter some hardcore stuff... :-)
I think I met with Dan, but there were so many people I don't remember his face.
Hey Pal,
Thanks for the response. Yeah I was thinking that the Cutaway looked a great system too - I'd just heard that it was a bit more than I could afford. But I guess for pilots at your level doing the stuff you are it is well worth it.
It is pretty impressive how fast the base rig deploys once you cutaway.
I ended up writing to Profly directly and got a response before. They said they'd sort either the of the 2 harnesses out for me directly..which is great.
I had asked if there were additional videos of the cutaway being deployed - as I was interested to see someone deploy when they were if a manoeuvre where the canopy was going apeshit or from a spiral etc.
There aren't any at the moment. But I was told that one of there customers has used it from a MacTwist gone wrong twice perfectly.
As you mentioned, they said the only situation you can't use it in is when you fall in the canopy. You just use one of the 2 normal reserves.
I reckon it is a great system....would be good to see it incorporated into other regular harnesses, XC etc...would seem much better to cutaway the stuffed paraglider then, there is no chance of tangles etc.
I have heard good things about the Avasport Acro2 also.
With the Supair harness that is interesting to hear
they didn't just give Gabor a new one after the 2nd or 3rd time it broke. I don't think it'd be a problem for me if I got that one, as I know I wouldn't be putting any where near as much Ggs or stress on it as Gabor would be :) What manoeuvre was he pulling anyway?
Did you meet my mate Dan Stephens when you were at Vertigo? He was the only mad Kiwi there so he'd be hard to miss.
Anyway...hope your flying it good.
Chau
Karl
Hey Pal!
Congratulation on your awesome results lately! Really imperssive to see what you are able to do with your Twister! BTW: What is your weight on the Twister?
See you later
Ove
Hi Karl!
Yes, I'm flying with the Groovy since 2 years almost.
It's a pretty simple, but strong construction. The back protection is not the regularly used foam but a special one (actually lot of small foam tubes), which doesn't turn you upside down when you fall into the water and you can also dry it out very fast. It's maybe not the most comfortable harness, but it's ok. I also like the rescue system, because the reserve is not in a tube or something so you don't have to pull it out, it's already out when you pull the handle. If your Icaro dealer is too lazy to write you back, try to contact with Michael Nesler the designer of the harness: http://justacro.com/index.php?m=5&mod=m&id=303
I tried the Supair acro 2 only two times and I couldn't set it perfectly for my body so I don't have lot of experience with it. But I can tell you that Gábor flies it since 1 year and one of the smaller risers of the hangup system simply ripped out from the harness during an acro maneuver. They tried to fix it at least 3 times already, but every time it broke again.
I also have to find a new harness for myself for the next season (unfortunately APCO doesn't want to produce acro harness at the moment). I have to try the Avasport Acro2 (I've heard good things about it), but I'm even more interested in the Profly Groovy Cutaway system. In my opinion this is the best what acro pilots can have. As I know they sold only a few piecies, however this is the safest possible rescue system in the paragliding world, people didn't really realize it yet. You have a sky-diving canopy in the back of your harness and it's container is connected to the paraglider. At the moment you pull the handle you disconnect from the glider the parachute opens immediately and you are flying again 15 meters below...Of course in case of falling into the lines or the canopy you cannot use it, but you still have 1-2 normal rescue under your ass. I know flying with 3 rescue sounds a bit too much (the cutaway, a rogallo and a regular one), but I have only one life and I'm risking it every day...Anyway I need some extra kilos to speed up my Infinity :-)
See you,
Pal
Hey Pal,
I see you have one of these Profly Groovy harnesses. I am tossing up between this and the Supair Acro 2 harness. That is if I can get one this far downunder.
Am interested to hear you views on it.
I guess you must think it's OK as I see you'd been using it a while from one of your previous posts.
I understand that you can get them through Icaro dealers and I've been trying to find an approx price (in Euros) on all the sites but nowhere seems to list any prices. Have fired off a few emails but no responses yet.
Do you or any others out there have an idea what these go for?
Any opinions on the Groovy Vs Acro2 harnesses?
Thanks
Karl